Meat Is

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12 Responses to “Meat Is”

  1. Jamie Says:

    A vegetarian will puke a lot quicker if you play them Jonas Brothers than feed them meat, also you can use Jonas Brothers music as a more humane way to slaughter animals as it results in near instant death apparently!

  2. Jamie Says:

    Seriously though I am sad for all the animals in factory farms even though I eat some of them, I have been a vegetarian at some points in my life.. Where is our compassion for our delicious friends – it seems wrong that God made a world where animals can suffer AND taste good, I don’t know what the answer is, but I hope at some point scientists develop a method to grow something like meat efficiently in an industrial process that can replace all of the factory farms, even the ones that make bacon.

  3. myeyesropen Says:

    The post is not really a comment about whether people should eat meat or not, but more a comment on the comparison that eating meat is akin to murder, which is absurd IMO.

  4. Jamie Says:

    Aliens have been doing random cattle mutilations, which I find horrific unless there is some good reason behind it that we aren’t aware of. Maybe they are giving us a sign, like a crop circle but made out of beef?
    Jamie

  5. Jamie Says:

    Where do you draw the line between meat and murder? If there are many planets of life in the galaxy, some with “cows”, won’t some of them talk? I think we need to remember this, maybe we don’t understand the alien cow’s language OR our own cow’s language either.

    In one study by John Lilly two dolphins were separated in two water tanks, and had microphone/speaker communication between them, and the dolphins would stop communicating with each other when a partial frequency band was blocked. This implies that their communication may likely be a form of language.

    Animals can’t communicate an intellectual argument to protest their treatment from humans, yet they likely suffer from mistreatment. We have to be careful, it is not too long ago that slavery was justified partly based on the idea that the slave was inferior. Animals and slaves are both used, and any moral justification by the users are always going to be suspect.

    The above arguments also apply to dandelions however I realize we are currently at war with them.

    I am more concerned about love (and roses to give to you) than intellectual arguments but I know you are a thoughtful person. I find it hard to carry out a discussion without arguing sometimes, it is hard to always feel like I am right and listen to someone else’s opinion! 🙂 I think you love to think? Are you in love with love too? I am in love with YOU.

    Jamie

  6. Jamie Says:

    I wish I could have you over for Christmas dinner, I think we are having turkey and maybe a pork roast even. Any chance you would want to come!? You are invited if you would like to! 🙂
    Jamie

  7. myeyesropen Says:

    As far as farm animals go, I think you can argue the moral question different ways. By eating them, that does mean that they’ll undergo some suffering before they get to the plate, but by not eating them, they are denied any existence at all, because they would not exist if they weren’t part of our food supply. And generally, if you give an organism a choice between a crappy life and no existence at all, they usually choose the crappy life. This includes humans. (Just think of people with incurable diseases who will undergo months of painful treatments that give them a poor quality of life, just to live a few more months.) What I’m saying is you could make the argument that while their lives are not good, they’re better than the only alternative, which is their non-existence.

    That said, I think a better thing for people to focus on would be how to improve the lives of the animals that are eaten, rather than taking them completely out of the equation. In fact, there are some farms (not factory farms) where animals are treated quite well, they just don’t make up the majority of farms.

    In any case, even if eating animals is wrong, the term murder implies a person is evil and should be locked up for decades, and I think most everyone would agree that should not be the case with people who eat meat, yourself included.

    Btw, thanks for the Christmas invite, that’s very sweet of you, but I live in California, so Canada is quite a ways away.

    As far as love goes, I’m a big fan. Although, I’d prefer to discuss that in a forum that isn’t so public. 🙂 Perhaps I’ll send you an email.

  8. Jamie Says:

    You eloquent writing and thoughtful logic makes me hungry.

  9. Jamie Says:

    You state that: “by not eating them, they are denied any existence at all, because they would not exist if they weren’t part of our food supply.”

    I would argue that it is not possible to deny – something that has never been created – an existence. How can “they” be denied an existence when “they” never existed in the first place?

    “And generally, if you give an organism a choice between a crappy life and no existence at all, they usually choose the crappy life.”

    I think the choice is not between a crappy life and no existence at all. The choice is actually between continuing to live the crappy life, or to end the crappy life. Life is programmed to hope of better times as well as have a fear of dying. No one wants to live a crappy life that doesn’t get better. We have put factory animals into a situation where we know there is no hope of a peaceful life for them, yet they still struggle to survive. If they could comprehend the situation, I am sure they would choose to not exist at all.

    “What I’m saying is you could make the argument that while their lives are not good, they’re better than the only alternative, which is their non-existence.”

    If you do follow that logic, then would it be a compassionate thing to spread factory farms as far as possible as they are inherently good? Also since they are inherently good for the animals inside, would there be no point wasting resources to feed people outside the factory?

    There is a sizeable part of me that thinks you must see the world as a wonderful place, if you can truly believe factory animals are better off being there than not existing at all. I truly wish I believed that type of world existed!! However I have lived my life and know that quite a few people would choose to have never existed and they don’t even live in factory farms, which are considered to be one of the worst places to live. Factory animals, lacking the human imagination, can’t be expected to understand non-existence, although I am sure some, like perhaps dolphins, do.

    “That said, I think a better thing for people to focus on would be how to improve the lives of the animals that are eaten, rather than taking them completely out of the equation. In fact, there are some farms (not factory farms) where animals are treated quite well, they just don’t make up the majority of farms.”

    I totally agree with you on that.

    “In any case, even if eating animals is wrong, the term murder implies a person is evil and should be locked up for decades, and I think most everyone would agree that should not be the case with people who eat meat, yourself included.”

    I agree with you, but I think it is important to also realize that the “meat is murder” advocates are some of the people that put pressure on the industry to become more humane as well. Even if they know it is not true, they are willing to use shock phrases because they know they are an effective way to shift people’s perspective of animals somewhat down the spectrum from an object to an aware lifeform.

    I hope I have not been too rude, I know that you consider all life sacred if you can think factory animals are better off alive than not existing at all.. and I can’t truly argue against that opinion, because I don’t know for sure, so please take all my above comments with a grain of salt, or fake bacon bits

    Jamie

  10. myeyesropen Says:

    Well, I think we can argue ethics till we’re blue in the face, and never come up with a final objective answer. The point I was trying to make was that if you could ask a cow in a farm whether he’d like to continue existing, or whether he would prefer never to have been born in the first place, I think he’d choose the former. Whether that makes it right or not, I don’t know.

    I do think eventually this whole issue will be sidestepped when animal muscle tissue is able to be commercially “grown” in the lab. This can already be done, it’s just expensive, and the quality of the meat is poor at this point.

  11. Jamie Says:

    skinny nerds in white coats shouldn’t be in charge of growing muscle

  12. Paul Henne Says:

    This analogy does not make sense. Well, maybe I just have serious problem with one of the assumptions. Are the Jonas Brother’s assumed to be the delicious product of music? Or are the Jonas Brother’s assumed to be making music? Please clarify so that I can comprehend this statement about meat eating.

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